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Subject	A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	Worlock (Tweaker God)
Posted on	02-01-01 00:49
Post No	170311
Want to add a bit more zip to your go-go? Foolish question ,eh! Of course you do. Here is how to do it After the reaction, before filtering out the RP add some of the push/pull fluid to the mixture, This is before diluting it with any water. How much P/P fluid? At least an equal volume as the reaction mix, and up to 2x the volume. It nay be a good idea to use distilled water in the P/P tanks, but if not it is not essential, and still worth it to do the procedure. Bring it to a easy boil, for no more than 5 minutes, do not want to overdo it. Proceed normally. A noticeable increase in the amount of zip & zing to the go, won't be any sleeping for a while. Why does this work?? A tough question, first a few facts. SWIM was told it finishes the cook, by turning any uncooked E remaining into go-fast. SWIM believes none of what he hears and very little of what he sees. If this was the case why did it not happen in the reaction flask, with the concentrated HI? and why so markedly zippier. What happens to a lot of the product? Maybe it is not destroyed but just shoved into the P/P. If the reaction was hot it may have escaped into the P/P tanks, in fact some of the better stuff might be in there. One would expect an increase in yield then by adding the some of the p/P juice back in. One would also expect the hose to have a good amount of go in it also. This is exactly what does happen a better yield. But , maybe it is due to an increase in the amount of Meth-HI salt over the Meth-HCl salt, the iodine making it weigh more than the Chlorine. That might also explain the extra zip. Yepper. Anyway it works, Interested in: A way to get a cleaner product? use less RP, and ? get a better yield? SWIM is ull of foolish questions. Here is how, mix the I and E and a little water, together,. Mix it well until it is homogeneous(smooth). Add 1/3 the amount of RP normally used, gently heat it, You want it to start a nice easy reaction, add more RP (teaspoon) to sustain it and intermittent heat as needed, if you added RP and did not get any response add a little heat, if the heat is not working spoon in another teaspoon of RP, keep this up until it begins to kick into phase 2. Phase 2 may come and go 4 to 6 times before it appears to have cleared and is finished. So don't rush it at the end, if it does not appear done or if not sure, then it probably is not done, yet, so keep working it over until certain. It takes more effort but the result is primo. It has multiple little whoosh reactions instead of one big hot WHHOOSSHH. Doing it this way SWIM has used only 23 gm of RP for 110 gm of E. And the RP was almost completely recovered.. The best part is, it was done when the water was boiled away after adding the HCL at the very end. There was no need to recrystallize, the product was great. So SWIM learned to keep the heat low, slow the reaction and don't let it get overly violent at the end. One final note whenever adding NaOH make sure it is always well iced so the NaOH does not screw up your product. It is only a problem when adding it, because of the ionization occurring needs to be in a cold environment. once the ionization is finished and the Na OH has stabilized then the heat is not a problem . It is the combination of Na OH , heat, and adding it to the mixture , or to water that makes a nasty substance, you want to avoid. Worlockium http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	The_Animal (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-01-01 03:44
Post No	170331
Check out my push pull recovery thread from a few months back as well (when the search engine is functional again - of course). Nobody seemed to give a shit when I was ranting about goodies in the tanks. Perhaps with the Worlock Seal Of Approval , I might get the adulation I deserve Sleep - Pah! like tiny pieces of death.



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	CURBSHOT (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-01-01 04:15
Post No	170339
right////right//////right !! sure i could help ~ but whats in it for curb . (who loves ya) curb does



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	SuperAssman (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-02-01 04:27
Post No	170553
in reply to: _________________________________________ Bring it to a easy boil, for no more than 5 minutes, do not want to overdo it. __________________________________________ Have you done comparative experiments doing exactly the same thing, but with just plain H2O rather than the P/P water? Some bee's (Fudgemonkey comes to mind) recommend just such a final boil ( or even several full boil-offs) with fresh H2O to finish off the rxn, using up all the available iodine. Like you say, the conc HI should achieve this just fine on its lonesome, but maybee the extra H2O helps to mix things up and brings all those "loose-end" bits of E into contact with HI. Sometimes you can have lumps of E or I2 stuck to the vessel walls. SWIM rarely uses P/P but finds that the addition and vigorous swirling of a small quantity of very hot H2O at the end of a rxn, followed by allowing the vessel to sit for a while, has helped yeilds. in reply to: _____________________________________________________ , maybe it is due to an increase in the amount of Meth-HI salt over the Meth-HCl salt, the iodine making it weigh more than the Chlorine. That might also explain the extra zip. ______________________________________________ Yep, meth HI will surely give ya that "kick" from the pipe, but ohhh the comedown. Anyway, don't ya do at least an acetone wash to clean out the majority of that crap? Ya aint consuming too much yellow/brown meth me-hopes? in reply to: __________________________________________________ So SWIM learned to keep the heat low, ___________________________________________________ Would you give some more detail in this regard please? SWIM has found that an rxn temp of 90C (about 190F methinks) sustained for the majority of the rxn is vital to positive results in his nano stuff. This is currently one of his 3 "non-negotiable" rules,(together with tone/peroxide/hot H2O cleaning of his mb RP & using minimal H2O in the rxn). No matter whatever else he fucks about with, the temp, the RP cleaning & the minimal H2O must bee done. This ensures a protocol that allows really farout experimenting in all other aspects while still ensuring excellant gogo every time. Only the yeild varies, occasionaly revealing more yeild increasing things to add to the "standard" dream. Aint chemistry FUN?!



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	MrMunch (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-02-01 07:39
Post No	170581
in reply to Bring it to an easy boil, for no more than 5 minutes now she's a simple girl, so to clarifie what is ment by boil; when she hears "to boil", she automaticly assumes that one would pour the contents into a glass pan and boil it, like soup. is this correct? or do you increace the heat of the water/oil/sand/whatever bath untill the flasks contents begin to boil? to this point she's always boiled it like soup (on the stove, electric of course) anyway she was just wondering. Whatever M/M



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	Worlock (Tweaker God)
Posted on	02-02-01 10:06
Post No	170615
Normally I would do the boil, at the end, in an open glass pan with d-water. The purpose being as stated above to clear out some of the crap. With the HI I have used only the reaction flask. simply because I am still new at adding the P/P fluids. The temperature needed is still a big question, I must agree that 190 F is the magic number that will assure the cooking will proceed to completion, however, more time and lower temperatures have also worked. It is all still somewhat puzzling, but that's what we do best at the hive. Dig into it, until the answers become obvious. You can not fail by bringing it up to 190 F, that puppy will kick in high gear. Everyone has observations and opinions, and often the solution is one that satisfies all these points of view. The more observations presented the more accurate a description of what is going on is possible. Once it is clear enough to theorize(hypothicate) then experiments to test the theories usually clinch it. As far as Meth-HI salt is is definitly a bit oily in appearence, and will wash away with acetone. It is thought to give more body rushes and also thought to be the cause of hangovers, skin eruptions , sore joints and muscles. What can I say? If it is the reason it is more zippier then perhaps a small amount is something to live with. Once the NaOH has been added and the meth is free based that is going to make the I2, water soluble, as NaI. Therefore the relative amount of Meth-HI salt maybe the same with the p/p fluid added or without. Leading me to think that the meth is volitalized to a greater degree than previously thought by some. Just because pure Meth-HCl has a boiling point of 324 F , does not mean that the meth molecule we find in the reaction mixture is going to behave like that at all. In fact it will certainly behave much differently. Worlockium http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	Worlock (Tweaker God)
Posted on	02-02-01 10:12
Post No	170616
As far as keeping the heat low , I was working in the range of 50-60C 130-150 F. When the stuff decides to fire off the temperature rises rapidly to 76 C associated with a major push of gas, then the temperature rises again to 87C and there is a major pull of gas. Although the reaction mixture is still bubbling, it is sucking in gas, and the temperature is rising!!?!! Go figure??? An exothermic reaction in which one gas is exchanged for a second gas, but the exchange ratio is unequal, more moles being absorbed then are being released Afterwards those white diamond shaped crystals form on the inside of the reaction vessel. WTF is that, They bubble when water hits them? Some form of phosphate? Worlockium http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	The_Animal (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-02-01 22:43
Post No	170730
Post No 54579 Sleep - Pah! like tiny pieces of death.



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	MrMunch (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-03-01 07:17
Post No	170808
worlock thanks for the pointer on boiling. as far has 190 f temp for the rxn to blast of, you don't mean external temp but internal, correct? the reason, she's sat there in a stairing battle with the flask and lost at 190 f, the external temp to something like 150 c (thats like 300 f or something) at those temps, bamm, she'll fire of in a hurry. any way is this all wrong? Animal she read your post, she remembered reading it early on, but was too much to take in at the time. but now it sounds like good information. all will be evaluated. thanks guys anyway, she must get back to her god damn matchbook hell. CYA Munch Out! Mmmmmmmmm



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	SuperAssman (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-03-01 07:28
Post No	170810
in reply to: ____________________________________________ Afterwards those white diamond shaped crystals form on the inside of the reaction vessel. WTF is that, They bubble when water hits them? Some form of phosphate? __________________________________________________ SWIM has NEVER seen these funny "flask crystals" that get talked about every now and then, so he put his thinking cap on.................Hmmmmmm, reacts with water, white solid,_{some kinda hydroxide perhaps?} must bee formed by interaction of something that WORLOCK uses but SWIM don't.........Aluminum hydroxide You still use Al pop tops, right? What do ya reckon? Aint chemistry FUN?!



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	SuperAssman (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-03-01 08:31
Post No	170822
Comments on: ______________________________________________ as far has 190 f temp for the rxn to blast of, you don't mean external temp but internal, correct? the reason, she's sat there in a stairing battle with the flask and lost at 190 f, the external temp to something like 150 c (thats like 300 f or something) at those temps, bamm, she'll fire of in a hurry. any way is this all wrong? _____________________________________________________ Question not directed at SWIM, but he'll chuck in his 2 cents worth anyway, cause he is a big fan of the "magic temp" of 90C. Making the move from 70C max temp to 90C was one of the best things SWIM ever did. Much improved consistency of results were had, and now combined with a coupla other tweaks_{(bad pun sorry)} gives SWIM his Nev'R Fail Rxn _{Patent Pending}. Now, are you saying that your hotplate is scorching away at 300F and you get a seperate internal temp reading of 190F???!! That don't sound right. Description would bee good. Do you have some kinda huge heat baffle 'tween the plate and the vessel or what? Do you use an oil bath? How are U measuring the temps? SWIM puts his vessel in a simple oil bath on the stovetop, with an el-cheapo oven thermometer in the oil. Accuracy of readings is confirmed regularly with bulb type kitchen thermometer and he has no probs getting to 90C(190F). The temp of reagants shouldn't bee much more than the oil bath. When you have the vessel in your hands at the fire-off the rxn is exothermic, no doubt, but not a great deal above ambient, and remember we are actually forcing heat energy into the rxn to keep it kickin'along, so the reagant temp should pretty much equal the oil bath temp. SWIM has tried higher temps. up to almost 130C, but it does seem to take a considerably hotter stovetop and long time to get things up past 100C or so & his vege oil bath starts to boil. No benefit was observed above 90C & in fact going over 100C seemed a bit counterproductive, after all H2O is one of the vital reagants and we want it to stay liquid, right? SWIM has done experiments where the rxn activity was closely observed while moving back and forth through a temp range of 80 - 90C. Over the last half hour or so of the rxn it was as if the rxn had a switch wired up to the 90C marker on the temp guage! As the temp got to that point the rxn would go from sedate blipping to rapid activity, pretty golden globules rising up and spreading about. As the temp was backed off, the rxn got all geriatric. SWIM now has no probs consuming the vast majority of the I2, it's just a matter of keeping things at the magic temp till it's all gone. Only then does the rxn curl up it's toes. Aint chemistry FUN?!



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	BenWiFFen (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-03-01 09:48
Post No	170841
Good idea. Every since I read Animals post i've played with the water. One thing I will do is after filtering the rxn through the R/P say 3 times then filter the P/P h20 into R/P then rince it into rxn mix. B_M_W



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	MrMunch (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-03-01 09:53
Post No	170843
Assman in reply to: tweaks(bad pun sorry) no, that was a good pun as far has the heat, 1st off the rxn was a failure. temp was slowly (well not real slow) raised in oil bath, off hand, she's not sure what the exact temp was, but 150c at least and rising, external, no idea bout internal, but, yes, it does make since that internal/external should be relitive. she finds herself in a hurry, or overly exited during the rxn. (VERY, VERY BAD GIRL) she knows. so it sounds like she needs to slow down, lower temp, and ride it out. no rest for the wicked. so, should she but the vessle in the 90c bath, as soon as all reagents are combined, then just let it be? or should she only apply heat little at a time, until activity is weak, them plum it in the bath? some many oppinions, so little time (actully lots a time, so little money) whats your opinion. bla bla bla Munch Out! Mmmmmmmmm



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	gemini33 (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-03-01 10:49
Post No	170857
SuperAss: SWIG33 does not use aluminum pop tops, but still sees those crystals as mentioned above by Worls. So I am thinking it isnt aluminum hydroxide?? I do not know what they are either, but in general to SWIG33 they signal the end or near completion of rxn. oxoxo g33



Subject	Re: A few tricks 4 better dope	Reply
Posted by	Jacked (Ancient Alchemist Delux)
Posted on	02-03-01 13:32
Post No	170890
Same here, Don't use Al in the start of the rxn, and get the white crystals around the top of the flask, every now and again they wont appear but on the adverage its an indicator stating your done. Fuck with my signature again asshole.

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